Curse

Fjalar · Nov 28, 2010, 03:57 PM // 15:57

Hello everyone! I'm kinda new to this thing of posting builds so I'll try to explain the best I can.

Here's the build:

http://www.gwpvx.com/Special:PvXDeco...nviar+consulta

Variants:
You can change "I am unstoppable" for some other defensive skill you like, or a res signet or what ever the heck you feel like,the stance can also be changed to one that makes you happier. The rest of the skills shouldn't be changed in order to mantain some decent damage.

Gear:

Runes
-Major/Sup Rune of Strenght
-Sup Absortion
-Sup Vigor

Depending on what the situation is you should have 3 sets on you if you have at least a Large Equipment Pack. This sets should be:

Radiant set: A normal set that provides energy ( this is the one to use for normal situations with low amounts of damage )

Sentinel's Set: Should be compulsory to every warrior to have one anti-magic set that reduces highly the big dps burst on ele enemies and whatever.

Anti physical damage set ( Don't remember the name of the rune): Helpfull agains strong mele enemies like Jotuns in the North or Titans in Proph, you ge tthe hang ot it right?

Weapons:
-Scythe: I'm not gonna give the "correct" mods for it caus everyone has it's own opinion on this , but here's some advice:

15^50
20/20 / Zaleous mod
+30 / Enchantments longer 20% / +5 Armor against Physical.

To me the 20/20 mod is the best choice due to the fact that this build relies heavily on Armor Penetration to produce high amounts of Damage.

Now choosing between +30 or +20% should be an easy choice, if you're gonna get in a sitation we're it is more important to not get slapped because if you fall your team falls, obviously put on a +30 or +5 armor. If what you need is to down an enemy quickly ( like a monk boss) then I would advise the +20% cause the Aura of Holy Might Will last longer , wich will increase your overall amount of Damage per second.

I would also suggest to use 2 sets of scythe at least , one with Zaleous Mod to fill up when you run low on energy and another one with Arpen to burst them out.

Usage
-Warrior's endurance is the first priority, it should be up day and night.

-Same for Asuran Scanner on the enemy.

-Then, when you're close you cast Aura of Holy Might ( by close i mean that you don't have to run like 10 seconds to reach your target , because then you waste the time it's up).

-Only use Power Attack when Asuran Scanner is up on the enemy , not doing so will mean a diference on the hit between: 60 being more or less the minimal and 322-430 being the average crits on this skill.

-Counterattack has double use, can be used when spiking a foe trying to pull him down and it's also an energy filler, usefull in situations agains energy draining mesmers that leave you at 0 when warrior's endurance is out, hits is usefull for that.

-Only use Farmer's Scythe agains more than one enemy. This is because in vanquishing situations and general PvE there are patrols , and if these come when you're fighting another group this is usefull as hell to just put them out before they even start wiping your party out.

- Burst of Agression is quite usefull and I would sugest to use it as soon as it gets it's CD out.

I think it's pretty simple to use and quite effective, at least it worked for me, any suggestions or comments on it you're welcome to give opinion. I'm also working on a team build that includes a variant of this , i'll upload it soon.

Thx for checking and I hope it helps with those HM's!

maxxfury · Nov 28, 2010, 04:13 PM // 16:13

WE
Mystic Sweep
Ermites Attack
Power Attack/prot attack
SAVE YOURSELF!*
Asuran Scan*
Aura Of Holy Might*
Frenzy/Flail/candys ect

Optionals of I am unstoppable, when kd's need takin into account. BUH! for Ascan when you know you can keep it up for lulz

And your about done

FoxBat · Nov 28, 2010, 04:24 PM // 16:24

This is where I'd link PvX wiki (above) but the build there is pretty bad too.

Anyway my main complaint is that for scythes, speeding up the attack speed is more important than adding some +numbers, especially once you pile strength of honor on top. More attacks will give you more DPS than anything else when you can hit in the 100s. That means mystic sweep and eremite's attacks are top choices, and I even prefer protector's strike for the same reason over power attack. Cycling those three over and over is going to do you more good than mashing farmer's scythe.

My main issue with PvX is you don't bring flail without a cancel stance, that's worse than doing the same with frenzy. Unlike many warrior builds, scythe does have the spare adrenaline to swap rush/flail constantly if you like, albeit that costs you a valuable skill slot.

Fusylum · Nov 28, 2010, 04:33 PM // 16:33

Shizam

T4T

Markus Clouser · Nov 28, 2010, 04:43 PM // 16:43

By Ural's Hammer works great as well. Burst is the best IAS skill if you don't need adrenaline and you're a WE war so please, please, please throw fail and frenzy out the window forever.

Fjalar · Nov 28, 2010, 04:46 PM // 16:46

Quote:

Originally Posted by FoxBat

This is where I'd link PvX wiki (above) but the build there is pretty bad too.

Anyway my main complaint is that for scythes, speeding up the attack speed is more important than adding some +numbers, especially once you pile strength of honor on top. More attacks will give you more DPS than anything else when you can hit in the 100s. That means mystic sweep and eremite's attacks are top choices, and I even prefer protector's strike for the same reason over power attack. Cycling those three over and over is going to do you more good than mashing farmer's scythe.

My main issue with PvX is you don't bring flail without a cancel stance, that's worse than doing the same with frenzy. Unlike many warrior builds, scythe does have the spare adrenaline to swap rush/flail constantly if you like, albeit that costs you a valuable skill slot.

I think that you might be right about the Power Attack thing, will test those changes tonight and see how it roles.

About the speeding up the attack speed , I don't really agree with you. In scythe , most white hits tend to be kind of weak , by weak i mean that sometimes in Hm you can get something like 28 dmg which is a complete piece of crap but when the hits are forced to apply a damage augmentation because of the skills the amount of damage never gets under 130 in the worst casse possible. So to me the stronger the hits , the more dps, if we were talking about daggers I would completely agreee with you, but you can't try to export mechanics between weapons. I see your point though.

To me Farmer's Scythe is not just a hepfull skill, it's essential. You really bust up mobs with this and if you're a decent tank and know some body block bassis the combo of WE + FS is just overpowered. At least for me that's something i wouldn't removed thus it saved me and my party from many wipes.

I'm really happy to see variations already, I'm not a huge fan of Save Yourselves when having low rank ( wich is my case) and that's why I don't include it. Also, I don't see the point on using two skills slots to just shout that out wich, doesn't last too long when using a wards ele or any paragon can cast stuff that increases armor or reduces damage ( not so heavily , ok) with just one slot and much longer effects.

Will, try the suggestions soon and give some Damage Results on master of damage.

FoxBat · Nov 28, 2010, 04:56 PM // 16:56

Quote:

Originally Posted by Fjalar

About the speeding up the attack speed , I don't really agree with you. In scythe , most white hits tend to be kind of weak , by weak i mean that sometimes in Hm you can get something like 28 dmg which is a complete piece of crap but when the hits are forced to apply a damage augmentation because of the skills the amount of damage never gets under 130 in the worst casse possible. So to me the stronger the hits , the more dps, if we were talking about daggers I would completely agreee with you, but you can't try to export mechanics between weapons. I see your point though.

Daggers are the complete opposite. Their autoattacks are utter crap beyond the strength of honor thing. Fox fangs happens to have a decent boost and more importantly, it cycles you around to death blossom which is a good damage boost.

Master of damage will support my thesis but it is admittedly an unfair comparison, he only has 60 armor. Higher armor foes will give farmer's scythe a stronger showing. Still I don't recall ever hitting below 60 with AoHM on as long as you aren't weakened. And mystic will hit for at least 18 and eremites 9 at all times, so there is still a fair damage buff in those cases.

SY is completely worth it at a low rank, even half or quarter uptime is amazing. However it is still a 100% defensive skill. If you aren't choking your heroes full of excessive defensive skills just to survive then it may not do a whole lot, but this depends heavily on area.

Fjalar · Nov 28, 2010, 05:30 PM // 17:30

Quote:

Originally Posted by FoxBat

Daggers are the complete opposite. Their autoattacks are utter crap beyond the strength of honor thing. Fox fangs happens to have a decent boost and more importantly, it cycles you around to death blossom which is a good damage boost.

Master of damage will support my thesis but it is admittedly an unfair comparison, he only has 60 armor. Higher armor foes will give farmer's scythe a stronger showing. Still I don't recall ever hitting below 60 with AoHM on as long as you aren't weakened. And mystic will hit for at least 18 and eremites 9 at all times, so there is still a fair damage buff in those cases.

SY is completely worth it at a low rank, even half or quarter uptime is amazing. However it is still a 100% defensive skill. If you aren't choking your heroes full of excessive defensive skills just to survive then it may not do a whole lot, but this depends heavily on area.

I'm not saying that SY isn't a usefull skill , I just say that when you got other ways to reduce damage received ( wich doesn't mean you heroes have to be overbuffed on defense ) to have something defensive that takes 2 slots (cause if you don't go with FGJ+SY then the buff of SY is kind of not enough due to the low time frime of it being up) maybe isn't the best way to go. That's why Im more fond of the use of "I'm unstopable" , because even though this is a Damage build, you're still the warrior and you're gonna be the one getting most of the first burst of the enemies spikes and not only that but if they knock you down half your way towards them you may lose aggro wich is highly unconvinient , so having something to buff up your armor so you get some decent damage reduction ( thus preventing the healers from losing energy foolishly healing you) and totally avoids the knockdown situation , leaving as an only counter slowing down hexes. So I think It's a pretty decent option and it also just takes one slot.

Note:By low rank I mean rank 1-3 ( In my case rank 1 , I'm trying to keep Faction Farm for the end :\ ).

About the daggers thing you're probably right ( I don't have much experience on daggers , I'll test that soon too).

And , you really can get something like 28 ( tought it's a minimal minimal) due to scythe being 9-41 , meaning this that variations on damage are higher than on any other mele weapon. I've been checking the cooldowns on the skills you suggested and they do seem a viable replacement, again, will test on later tonight.

To me just mantain Burst up as soon as they come out of cooldown is enough to buff the speed decently. And Frenzy in PvE HM is something to avoid at all times. Flail sucks too because if you can't cancel it when your healing is getting pwnd you can't go help him and reduced mobility is really something unhelpful when you want to kill fast , even more if you're mele.

PS: On a sidenote I would also say that Burst becomes completely viable for adrenaline builds if you're able to mantain it , wich can be done using Dwarven Stability along with it ( bad part is that you have to use 2 skills to just not loose the adrenaline).

Shadow Sin · Nov 28, 2010, 05:54 PM // 17:54

...Hasn't this been made before?

http://www.gwpvx.com/Build:W/D_Enduring_Scythe

RedDog91 · Nov 28, 2010, 06:15 PM // 18:15

Quote:

Originally Posted by Shadow Sin

...Hasn't this been made before?

http://www.gwpvx.com/Build:W/D_Enduring_Scythe

Well if you want to rain on his "I have a good idea" mentality, then yes, it has been made before.
(most people don't check to see if the build already exists before they "create" it)

I Hate Chips · Nov 28, 2010, 06:46 PM // 18:46

Quote:

Originally Posted by Fusylum

Shizam

T4T

IAS?
12chars

Fjalar · Nov 28, 2010, 07:30 PM // 19:30

Quote:

Originally Posted by RedDog91

Well if you want to rain on his "I have a good idea" mentality, then yes, it has been made before.
(most people don't check to see if the build already exists before they "create" it)

I never said that I invented this like the first one or shit. The "i have a good idea mentality" thing you mention I don't see where on this thread can you find it but if you do it was certainly not my intention. Apart from that the fact is that that build is not the same, because I'm including farmer's scythe and some other mechanichs that differ a bit from it. Even though I had no idea this build was up there, in fact I checked looking for something like this and I didn't find it ( seems I didn't look deeply enough).

I guess it's not harmfull for anybody to discuss build variation on the use of this build and how could it be helpful.

The only thing I ask for is not to think I'm looking for something apart improving my build because certainly to clain attention as a build creator is not on my goals.

Thx and let's keep discussing possibilities

Arrogant Bastard · Nov 28, 2010, 09:09 PM // 21:09

Frenzy and Drunken Master (with alcohol or cons) are the best choices for IAS.

If you are having problems with the double damage on Frenzy, then you need to fix your backline.

Haggis of Doom · Nov 28, 2010, 09:23 PM // 21:23

@OP: You need PS on your heroes.

Chthon · Nov 28, 2010, 09:59 PM // 21:59

Quote:

Originally Posted by maxxfury

WE
Mystic Sweep
Ermites Attack
Power Attack/prot attack
SAVE YOURSELF!*
Asuran Scan*
Aura Of Holy Might*
Frenzy/Flail/candys ect

Optionals of I am unstoppable, when kd's need takin into account. BUH! for Ascan when you know you can keep it up for lulz

And your about done

Pretty much this. Get a decent backline and run Frenzy for IAS (or get consumables and run Drunken Master). When playing with a well-designed team, you will have to drop AoHM because of the conflict with Orders/Barbs/MoP. EBSoHonor is generally the best replacement.

Fjalar · Nov 28, 2010, 10:43 PM // 22:43

First I would say that of course if you use cons there are many options far better, still I'm not the kind of guy who likes to spend money just to be able to kill some enemies and I generally prefer, when vanquishing and stuff, to not use them, it's better to save money if you know you can go the normal way.

About the backline I'm not saying that it can't have you up with frenzy, all I say is that you make them spend more energy that they could use to heal others. I don't think it's smart to take Frenzy , but it's only my advice and I might be absolutely wrong, still I'll never equip that for pve HM, first, cause I don't trust my hero monks doing their job properly and having me as a focus of their healing and second , because I really don't see that this type of build reliying so heavily on IAS to not being able to wait 4 seconds to put on Burst again. I don't find that receiving double damage to earn those 4 seconds off cooldown. Again, if you give me a good reason I might change my mind. But coming and saying: "this is better" without giving a reason is not gonna change my mind. I don't mean this the bad way, is just that I really don't understand why aren't you giving reasons. Say: "Frenzy is better because it keeps your IAS up all time or whatever" but there's no point on just agreeing with builds just because it's the fashionable thing.

I 'm not saying this cause I think you're wrong, I just say it because there should be a reason to propose something.

Been checking on the Mystic and Eremites plus some other scythe skills and I have to say it's worth the shame to change Counterattack if you're not having energy issues. About Power Attack I'm not so sure though, It provides kind of the same amount of damage that the Derv. skills proposed.

Any other ideas for this?

FoxBat · Nov 29, 2010, 12:16 AM // 00:16

I've looked more closely about power attack vs prot strike and it's a real toss up. +38 bonus is huge. It feels like power attack is slightly better when you're settled in place hitting the same guy, and prot strike is better for running around smashing weak foes to death fast. But under SoH and AoHM they're both very close. Mystic/Eremites is not really arguable though since it does both fairly well, fast attack and a decent damage buff.

Chthon · Nov 29, 2010, 02:44 AM // 02:44

Quote:

Originally Posted by Fjalar

First I would say that of course if you use cons there are many options far better, still I'm not the kind of guy who likes to spend money just to be able to kill some enemies and I generally prefer, when vanquishing and stuff, to not use them, it's better to save money if you know you can go the normal way.

Me neither. I almost never use cons unless someone else brought them.

Quote:

I don't think it's smart to take Frenzy , but it's only my advice and I might be absolutely wrong,

You are.

Quote:

still I'll never equip that for pve HM, first, cause I don't trust my hero monks doing their job properly and having me as a focus of their healing

1. Modern decent backline should have no problem protting you. ER ele gains energy for casting PS on you. ST pre-prots partywide. If you worry about the heroes failing to pre-prot you, you can cast manually.

2. If you keep SY! up with good uptime, the fact that the monks have to focus on you is not a problem, since no one else will be taking enough damage to care about. If you repay the monk's 10e PS with better SY! uptime, the monk got a very good deal. Put another way: using Frenzy to power SY! better means the monks spend more on you but less on the team overall. Which brings me to...

Quote:

and second , because I really don't see that this type of build reliying so heavily on IAS to not being able to wait 4 seconds to put on Burst again. I don't find that receiving double damage to earn those 4 seconds off cooldown.

1. Burst drains out the adrenaline you need for SY!. That alone is a reason to never use it.

2. 1/3 downtime on your IAS means a significant slowdown in your adrenaline build up, which hurts SY! uptime. It hurts even worse because you're starting from zero because of the drain effect.

3. 1/3 downtime on your IAS hurts your DPS a lot more than you seem to acknowledge.

Quote:

About Power Attack I'm not so sure though, It provides kind of the same amount of damage that the Derv. skills proposed.

Since you seem to have come on board with Mystic and Ermites, what are you considering -- Farmer's vs Power? Farmer's is +17; Power is +38; it's no contest. The only real competitor for Power's spot is Protector's because of its 1/2sec activation time.

Fjalar · Nov 29, 2010, 01:35 PM // 13:35

Quote:

Originally Posted by Chthon

Me neither. I almost never use cons unless someone else brought them.

You are.

1. Modern decent backline should have no problem protting you. ER ele gains energy for casting PS on you. ST pre-prots partywide. If you worry about the heroes failing to pre-prot you, you can cast manually.

2. If you keep SY! up with good uptime, the fact that the monks have to focus on you is not a problem, since no one else will be taking enough damage to care about. If you repay the monk's 10e PS with better SY! uptime, the monk got a very good deal. Put another way: using Frenzy to power SY! better means the monks spend more on you but less on the team overall. Which brings me to...

1. Burst drains out the adrenaline you need for SY!. That alone is a reason to never use it.

2. 1/3 downtime on your IAS means a significant slowdown in your adrenaline build up, which hurts SY! uptime. It hurts even worse because you're starting from zero because of the drain effect.

3. 1/3 downtime on your IAS hurts your DPS a lot more than you seem to acknowledge.

Since you seem to have come on board with Mystic and Ermites, what are you considering -- Farmer's vs Power? Farmer's is +17; Power is +38; it's no contest. The only real competitor for Power's spot is Protector's because of its 1/2sec activation time.

Now thats far better!! Now you've given me some good reason to why and what for to use each skill, I'll give a try to your build , maybe SY + Frenzy is a good combination, I'll check.

About the power attack thing, there's no skill that I found that deals more , I considered protector's but to me it isn't really ehlpfull since it only increases damage hitting a moving foe, In most situations I tend to body block every mele and tank them there so the type of combat I generally see myself involved makes few use of this.

And yes, using SY on the build of course changes everything , and gives your points a lot more sense. But it you're using the original then the stance to use is Burst , i checked IG and with 15 Str has only 2 seconds down, wich is really not so much of a big issue.

But now you've mentioned this to me I'll test it, the aggro management of the build you propose seems pretty usefull, that's for sure. Thx for your opinino m8.

reaper with no name · Dec 01, 2010, 08:02 AM // 08:02

If you're not using SY on your scythe warrior, then why are you being a scythe warrior in the first place? Without SY, you're just an inferior version of a scythe sin at best.

Also, Protector's Strike > Power Attack on a scythe warrior because of its quicker activation. Since so much of the scythe's damage comes from the weapon rather than the +damage, it's more important to get a lot of attacks into as short a time period as possible. This is also why Mystic Sweep and Eremite's Attack are the most common attack skills in these sorts of builds.